Vanderthtown, "According to objective morality, was it moral to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki?"
It's certainly worth discussing if the bombing was an act of terroisam, as opposed to an act of war?
The Rebel
JoinedPosts by The Rebel
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22
Absolute moral standards and fiction.
by The Rebel innot all beliefs are worthy of respect, but when we read a book of fiction in my mind it's easier to travel outside ourselves and our absolute moral standards.
fiction allows our imagination to be free.
i haven't read " fifty shades of grey" but i read " romeo and juliet" at school,and juliet was 13, romeo i believe was supposedly around 18 or 19.
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I spoke to 2 Jobos on a cart but I refused to discuss religion
by punkofnice ini was in a good mood yesterday (makes a bloody change, i hear you say).
i was meeting an old buddy for a meal.
he was never a jobo.
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The Rebel
On Friday I was in town and saw two young girls ( 25-30) on a cart. I said very politely " Do you realize you are in a cult". One politely asked why I said that, I very politely mentioned the royal commission, blah blah blah. She said " If I am wrong I will research it " I returned a little later, because having thought on our communication, I didn't want her to research and be without a contact. " can I give you my wife's number, so if you research and need talk with someone you have a contact" She thanked me put my wife's number on her phone....
That's the beauty of the cart, it catches many witnesses out of the witness mode, open to discussion and not on mind control alert as when they witness door to door.
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Absolute moral standards and fiction.
by The Rebel innot all beliefs are worthy of respect, but when we read a book of fiction in my mind it's easier to travel outside ourselves and our absolute moral standards.
fiction allows our imagination to be free.
i haven't read " fifty shades of grey" but i read " romeo and juliet" at school,and juliet was 13, romeo i believe was supposedly around 18 or 19.
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The Rebel
Vanderhoven7 " The only way absolute moral standards could exist is if there exists an absolute standard creator"
Good point, let's put our moral standards in the boxing ring, if I were Mahammed Ali i would knock the opponent out, without any mercy. ( And the public would and did love it)
I was always amazed growing up in England, that the generation that survived WW2 thought Punk music was evil and could bring down the establishment. I never got that.
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Fancy becoming emotionally attached to a pair of Jeans...
by The Rebel inand it was with great sadness that today my favorite pair of dirty denim, armani jeans were thrown in the bin.
they cost me £260 to purchase, and were value for money, as they were worn for many years and together we shared some wonderful occasions.they were stitched on numerous occasions, and loving repaired.
but today, and to my wife's relief i finally binned my amani jeans.
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The Rebel
" O" I wish I still had some of my childhood possessions. I owned model figures of " Hoss, Ben and Joe" from Bonanza, which today would be worth a small fortune.Today i would get such joyful memories reading my collection of Watford football club programs. Each match I attended was calculated, because my paper round job required getting up at at 6 in the morning seven days a week, yet it didn't cover a ticket to the match, a programe and the buss journey. So I usually sacrificed the buss and walked 50 minutes to the match and 50 minutes home afterwards so I was able to buy the match program.
I think from this thread we should be careful what we throw away. Or at least I won't be so strict on my boy, when we discard his old memorabilia.
p.s having a newspaper round as a kid, helped me with the initiative to window clean at 15, and I will teach my boy when he is 13 to earn his pocket money.
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22
Absolute moral standards and fiction.
by The Rebel innot all beliefs are worthy of respect, but when we read a book of fiction in my mind it's easier to travel outside ourselves and our absolute moral standards.
fiction allows our imagination to be free.
i haven't read " fifty shades of grey" but i read " romeo and juliet" at school,and juliet was 13, romeo i believe was supposedly around 18 or 19.
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The Rebel
Not all beliefs are worthy of respect, but when we read a book of fiction in my mind it's easier to travel outside ourselves and our absolute moral standards. Fiction allows our imagination to be free. I haven't read " fifty shades of grey" but I read " Romeo and Juliet" at school,and Juliet was 13, Romeo I believe was supposedly around 18 or 19.( This moral standard I was taught at school)
I think the moral compass we allow to exist in fiction is often different than what we would allow exist in our reality. When I read a story of fiction my moral compass does not see the same ethical responsibility I attach to my non-fiction moral standard. Is this because:-
A) of the art of language?
B) Can a good writer give us a different moral compass in fiction?
C) Does fiction have a different moral compass than our reality?
Story telling is in my opinion telling the stories of people's life's. This to me is the fundamental point of why I read fiction, yet the depiction of a character in the book of fiction,and the moral compass will I rarely judge. But with many books of non-fiction I read, if the "hero "of the story was a real person I wouldn't waste my time reading the book.
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Morality Without Deity
by cofty inone of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.
it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.
christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.
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The Rebel
I have enjoyed reading your latest O.Ps Cofty.
When I left the Watchtower I wanted to get at the heart of my preoccupation with God. I considered if I had been born Chinese, I would have a different skin, different beliefs. If I were born a Muslim I may as well have put my current beliefs in the trash bin. So since I no longer want to waste my time choosing the correct religion, I decided to seek something else, freedom to think, my own personality my own views on right and wrong.
Now I am inclined to believe often what I think is right according to my moral interpretation is often only that, my moral interpretation of right and wrong. I am therefore now more open to other people's ideas, of right and wrong, and personally I found many who attach themselves to a religious organisation do not have this freedom to think, nor their own personality on views of right and wrong.
To clarify I look back on my time as a witness, and I see myself cast in a movie, my role wasn't that of the great star, but my little role was written by the organisation, and I was not allowed to improvise my part, the directors of the movie did their job very well.
I have now given up acting, or at least I am currently blacklisted from participating in any religious movies.
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6
Fancy becoming emotionally attached to a pair of Jeans...
by The Rebel inand it was with great sadness that today my favorite pair of dirty denim, armani jeans were thrown in the bin.
they cost me £260 to purchase, and were value for money, as they were worn for many years and together we shared some wonderful occasions.they were stitched on numerous occasions, and loving repaired.
but today, and to my wife's relief i finally binned my amani jeans.
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The Rebel
and it was with great sadness that today my favorite pair of dirty denim, Armani jeans were thrown in the bin. They cost me £260 to purchase, and were value for money, as they were worn for many years and together we shared some wonderful occasions.They were stitched on numerous occasions, and loving repaired. But today, and to my wife's relief I finally binned my Amani Jeans. (My wife always thought I a grown man wearing a pair of designer jeans with designer patches looked silly)
i think when I look at my material possessions, I am attached to some crazy things, I still have my childhood gollywog, he is in a terrible state of disfigurement with no eyes,no legs and now white cotton wool for a face with a deformed lip...but I simply can't throw him away.
Do you have any material possessions that are of only sentimental value. I think these are our true material possessions...
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15
Can you live with your self?
by The Rebel ini think if we are to fully delight in life we must live without detachment.
because when we become attached to a beliief we feel a desire that we are right.
the problem with being right, even if we are right is that our beliefs then try to attach themselfs to virgin snow, and change people to our thinking.
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The Rebel
Thank you for the replies...
Looking back on my ministry, I see myself a muderer of people's reality. Because that is what I accomplished on my ministry, having believed and spread Watchtower lies, I therefore now find it hard to throw those lies in the trash bin and believe in a new reality.Yet I want to advance as an individual and find good friends.
This is why I have decided my future crimes will not be judged on what I believe, but who I am, and this is also how I now evaluate people...With most people I meet I usually hope what we believe can be met half way, and the person we are is what counts.
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15
Can you live with your self?
by The Rebel ini think if we are to fully delight in life we must live without detachment.
because when we become attached to a beliief we feel a desire that we are right.
the problem with being right, even if we are right is that our beliefs then try to attach themselfs to virgin snow, and change people to our thinking.
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The Rebel
I think if we are to fully delight in life we must live without detachment. Because when we become attached to a beliief we feel a desire that we are right. The problem with being right, even if we are right is that our beliefs then try to attach themselfs to virgin snow, and change people to our thinking. Often all this accompanies is to leave our mucky footprints on another persons light hearted and cheerful disposition.
Ovbiously I appreciate my above comment has many holes in it, but I wrote it having looked back on my superior righteousness when I preached as a sincere witness. All I accomplished was many wasted hours.( I should say years) And with those whom I studied with it only accomplished taking away a persons light hearted and cheerful disposition.
Now when I meet people I want to accomplish something more important than my truth. I want people to simply like the person I am. I think that this is something worthwhile, and I now realise how often when I was on the ministry strangers whom I judged, gave me the special gift of themselfs.
This is why I enjoy the company of children, what they do not know about my deeper thoughts does not concern them, and nor should it. When the ball rolls down the path way, it simply rolls down the pathway, the science and religious stuff as why the ball rolls down the pathway is unimportant.
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Don't let the sun go down on me.
by The Rebel inin appreciation of david bowie who died a year ago today.
also to george michael and all the other less famous people ( mouthy, school friend.
my aunt.
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The Rebel
Anybody who reads my posts will know of my love for Watford F.C.
On January 12 two days after starting this O.P Graham Taylor ( Ex Watford and England F.C manager) died of a heart attack at 71 yeas old.
Elton John was like a brother to Graham Taylor, and together in the 1970s, they created a football club which achieved the impossible, taking the club from the bottom of the 4th division to 2nd place in the top division. I tried to share those memories with my son last year, when before a match, Elton John and Graham Taylor were present to have sections of the stadium named after them.
Graham Taylor was not only a great football manager, he along with Elton created the first family football club. I remember how Elton got enjoyment speaking about the game with us kids,when he bought chips in the chippy. But more importantly I remember that Graham Taylor replied to my friends letters by first class post, when we young teenagers wrote questioning his team selection.
It was a Beautiful " Yellow Brick Road" ( The shirts of Watford f.c are yellow) a fantastic journey, and I never thought starting this " O.P" I would be adding the name " Graham Taylor" to the list. Thanks for the memories Graham Taylor.